Im older now and have some typical late 40s health issues. Some do it by mistake. You should report any AME who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the 8500-8. File closed. Read from the question directly above the one you linked to: Long-standing FAA regulation, 61.53, prohibits all pilotsthose who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are notfrom exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. Why would you need to report that? I lost some respect for FAA there. All because of a blood pressure medication I put on my 2012 medical form. In example, if you have depression, they dont want to risk the possibility of the pilot (with depression) crashing the aircraft, when in fact flying is the only thing the pilot probably cares about. Doesnt this seem grossly out of proportion? The FAA is able to see what medication a pilot has been subscribed because they have access to the national prescription database. I dont want to hide anything from him. Of course they do. I hope the FAA box didnt kill more. I am not an AME but am a flying physician with long experience chairing and serving on the EAA Aeromedical Council. For what do you have special issuance? She rekindled an unpursued interest I buried over 30 years ago when we got married and started having children. I hid it from the FAA for 12 years They found out I didnt disclose it and revoked ALL my certificates ATP multi-single engine land, Commercial rotorcraft and glider as well as all my flight instructor certificates. How Likely is it that the FAA will Catch You? If you don't disclose it the likelihood that they find out about it are pretty slim, though. Hell no. The Great Debate: do pilots lie on medicals? You are better off to work truthfully with your AME. Avoid Medical Certification Delay. However you have never been treated or taken medication so probably if you disclose it the FAA would require some sort of doctors evaluation which says you are OK and that will be the end of it. Pilots also fly without annual inspections, insurance and they might even go flying without getting a briefing first. Do you need to have 20/20 vision to be a pilot? Does A Surgical Mask Help Avoid COVID-19? Told the truth, The FAA took my license. If you can afford to own or rent an airplane, you can afford to pay an AME. Make no mistake: Form 8500-8 is a legal instrument, unlike many other documents. Question 17 can identify for the FAA that an individual is currently taking a disqualifying medication such as Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta, Strattera, etc, commonly used to treat ADHD. Port St. Lucie, FL 34988 SO ITS FLY TILL I DIE OR GO TO PRISON. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. This is left bundle branch block which is a stop as far as the CAA is concerned. SOO going by the statistic that YOU pointed outof very few incidents and the comments that have been made that alot of piolts tell little white lies to an AME to keep their medical . The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. Fly over open country and probably be able to put the plane down in a field if there were trouble but the FAA has a BIG resounding NO for that. This is a bit off the subject of lying on the 8500-8, but it addresses another approach to not requiring a medical examination for certain types of flying. Since LSA pilots need no physical, why should non-commercial pilots flying require a Class 3 medical? I flew for 16 years in the Air Force with a known heart murmur that I know would preclude me form a civilian 1st class. The SIC will pull the body out of HIS brand new seat. will most definitely warrant deferral by the AME and evaluation of your eligibility for a medical certificate by the FAA. We know that the incidence of major depression in the general population is 10%. Pedestrian deaths 5300 I lost my 2012 medical cert in Istanbul, and make the mistake of sending the FAA form requesting a duplicate. Help is only a phone call away! Water under the bridge now 19 years later. Lie and get caught, you will lose your ticket, get fined, and possibly go to jail. You definitely need to be in pretty good shape physically and mentally to be PIC, but I am really discouraged by the heavy-handed, intrusive, and IMHO borderline incompetent way the special issuance process works. Legally, it does have to be the original. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts on your behalf. Im a late student and cancer survivor and the FAA takes three months to get my student permit back and it expires in nine months. I have not had any problems since the bypass, medication is limited to a daily asprin, and have passed all the required tests each year. When learning to fly originally I was not even made aware this nor the NPPL was available. As a pilot since 1953, and now a retired vascular surgeon who still flies, I have wondered for years if there is any evidence that pilot physical exams save lives. Would be drowsy at odd times. This is likely true for those receiving social security disability benefits as well, What Happens When the FAA gets Suspicious. Driving While Impaired (DWI) from alcohol, drugs, texting and exhaustion is obviously a serious problem and every driver self certifies, there is no evidence in the National Traffic Safety Data Base, that accidents caused by preexisting health conditions and the medications used for their treatment, is a major problem. but I was frustrated because a desk bureaucrat figured they knew more about my health than 3 doctors who had recently examined me with aviation in mind.. Ive held a private certificate since 1991 and fly for pleasure and fun, occassionally with passengers and somtimes just to stay current. In other words, your health is in your hands. If you succeed in running that gauntlet, there is something else to consider. Medical certificates are designated as first-class, second-class, or third-class. I suffer from multiple personality disorder, but all of the voices affirm they are qualified pilots. In the FAA world view you are not telling the truth. thank you, that will be $110. In reality, all pilots (no matter what their license) self-certify their fitness to fly every time they fly. Good Luck. One assault charge, not so much. Most people fall into the trap thinking that one DUI will prevent them from getting their medical, or they fear it will make it difficult to get. The premise of someone getting over long-term depression is laughable. What Dickie did was tell on someone for lying. HIPPA Law prevents them from looking at your medical history without your consent. I didnt lie on my Class 3 medical, was a 55 yr. old student pilot, have since been told by several older pilots that I was honest but naive. Funny thing is the murmur is gone but Ill never have my life back If you lie on your medical form Best of luck. Its a losing game. You are assumed to be lying. 6 months and 2 weeks earlier I had one done for a Peace Corps application and sent that in, which would have been good for 2 years. Make a copy of the original and keep that in a safe place. Returning home, the Civil Aviation Medical Board cleared me for flying. We all know that volume of cars on the roads vs. number of planes in the air leads to have to deal with more idiots on the ground. And maintaining a Commercial Driver License with some illnesses is more difficult than maintaining and FAA Medical Certificate. If the AME says that you do need to provide X, Y, and Z, get all of that together before going in to see the AME. It is probably one of the most important benefits they offer their members. What a great time you both will have. Having people squeal on them? If you have a disqualifying medical condition, say unexplained loss of consciousness, you cant fly. With the impact these regulations and half-baked ideas have on our lives, economy, and national security in general it is time that federal employees comply with all the regulations the citizens that they regulate have to. Since my late 30s, I have taken meds to control my blood pressure. I can see a medical for commercial operators, just like Bus drivers, but that is all. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? This doesnt happen very often because Oklahoma City deals with up to 700,000 to one million people a year but if one does get caught then one could face some legal trouble in court. FAA needs to justify their man hours.with scapegoats. When reading many aviation magazines and articles it seems likely that most accidents are a result of lack of proficiency rather than due to medical issues. Our fact-checkers review each article to ensure that all the information presented is accurate, relevant and up-to-date. You may think you told the truth but you absolutely did not. Theyll wait until a couple of major airline pilots go postal or have a seizure over the threshold and get the front page bold type, then overreact totally inappropriately, and far too late. I live in the UK and the medical over here for a pilot licence, they dont do an EEG. May just you please lengthen them a little from next time? XYZZY62, Check the AME Guide posted at faa.gov to determine what the FAA requires for your seasonal depression. I avoid medical intervention like the plague. I agree that the FAA has an interest in regulating commercial pilots but anyone else should have to produce a drivers license. While I share our concern about pilots going unconscious in flight, I have as much concern about FAA going unconscious while on the job. They generally do not spend a significant amount of time reviewing each one. When I joined the military, it popped up at MEPs and I had to complete a waiver but I was allowed to go to boot camp. Another friend had accompanied me to this testing and he sat across the table from me so that he could see the doctors actions. Taint worth messing up folks. My wife bought me some flight lessons for my birthday. Im not saying I have a medical cert, but if I did this is what I would do. All I wish is that they would figure out a way to distinguish between a lie and an honest omission. John has been quoted or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, Flying Mag, and National Review. To self certify? Dont worry about getting caught unless you lie about you criminal history you will be fine. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. The FAA can get your records from Social Security if you are on Medicare. That question cant be removed from the form easily, so you have the option of clicking the box labelled International or declining to provide and leaving the field blank. It is possible that the Emirates authorities will check to see if he can make an attempt at a complete sentence with capitalization and punctuation. I had a friend that sold very pricey aircraft (demonstration pilot) that was colorblind. The states set the standards for driver licenses and the Feds set the standards for pilot medical certificates and pilot certificates. Your AME will review your MedXPress application in detail and conduct a physical exam. Typical government bull-. If you think your AME charges too much, find someone else. Local Oklahoma City Area: (405) 954-3261. If a question comes up about whether or not a pilot is qualified to hold an FAA medical certificate, the application itself usually does not contain enough information for AMCD to make a truly informed decision. They, and AOPA, worked with me to get it corrected. On the subject of medical self certification, read the announcement by the AOPA and the EAA. Some records reviewer in OKC can not guarantee those in my aircraft a safe journey only I can do that. With over 20,000 hours of real world experience, much of it in Cessna 172s and P210s, Collins wrote about safety, weather and air traffic control from first-hand experience. Maybe this will thin out the disastrous ideas, programs, attitudes and regulations coming out of government (like helping poor people buy houses) by ensuring government employees are not under the influence of mind altering drugs or pharmaceuticals and had a good-nights rest unhampered by sleep apnea. You want to be an ATP, you have two pilots. so.does everyone repeat their whole life medical history.or just the recent stuff since the last medical exam? That isnt good leadership. I aeree. Given how stress, marriage pressures, work distractions, fatigue and the hopelessly useless pee in cops cut, phony eye exam work, the self certification (which good pilots do anyway) and lack of medical accident experience with LSA, the fat, useless, overpaid FAA administrators should just go away in favor of drivers license. As John and Dickie do point out, there are rules and hence bureaucracy in place to protect the masses. I believe you are mis-informed; as long as I hold a once valid third class medical and a valid drivers license, and have not had a third class medical that disqualified me since that qualifying medical exam, Im eligible to fy Sport!I refer you to the following links: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/response2/, http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/, This is a common misunderstanding. Thank you for the advice and expertise Sir, you just saved me a $50.00 discussion appointment with my AME. Took the FAA medical (stand on this leg, stand on that leg can you see anything out of this eye, can you see anything out of that eye). Yes its very rare for someone to have heart attack or neurological brain seizure in flight. Heres more information on the FAAs battery of neuropsychological testing: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/. I dont feel it would be correct to try to hide a condition from these people. Telling the truth has cost me nearly 2 years of no flying due only to a late reply by my doctor and now I am walking away from my favorite form of relaxation, anyone want to buy my plane? If I remember correctly, being off antidepressant medication for 6 months or longer makes the problem that required the medication no longer an issue. Question 19 speaks to visits to healthcare professionals within the last 3 years. If on this question, an applicant identifies that he or she has been to see his or her doctor for treatment of ADHD, this will likely warrant deferral. Id never put my family in danger and drive a car if I wasnt feeling well, why would anyone think Id fly that way? Now that I have no further problems I have to take an Awake and Alert test annually. Lying on the medical is usually unnecessary in order to keep flying, and has such potentially dire consequences for ones life, family, and finances that its not worth the risk. There are two schools of thought on this issue: 'If you wanna fly, you gotta lie' versus 'honesty is always the best policy.' NO. Like driving big trucks and boats have no such pseudo-medical crap. I have been flying with a special issuance 3rd class physical for 15 years. Brian is absolutely right. There shouldnt be different standards. Lets assume 10%, which is probably a high figure. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Just do want everyone does to get into the military hide the truth. We report, you decipher. Any deviation from general standards of health found would/should require a more intense examination/(s.). If it is not recurrent, you should be able to demonstrate with help from your private treating physician that the problem no longer exists. BUT I HAVE 40+ YEARS AND 5100 HRS OF PIC IN MY OWN AIR CRAFT WITH OUT INCIDENT OR ACCIDENT. The 1320 pound (600 Kg) limit is based on the European standard, I think. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. The answer is that the population would not tolerate it. Some of the disqualifying conditions are definitely going to keep someone from getting a medical certificate, but these are illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. The airman who never was on medication for depression and certinatly never had a hospitible addmitance was now having to prove a negative. I am going to start a letter campaign to ask the people who can make this happen (our elected officials), to get behind it and make it happen quickly. I dont know if all pilots lie during medicals, but I do know of one who did. If this is a recurrent problem, getting a class 3 medical can be difficult. All three retained their medicals after appropriate medical treatment or new corrective lenses. What the FAA is looking for are patterns of behavior that suggest pathological conditions that may lead to gross negligence or unsafe decisions regarding flying. If the FAA ever decides to search to see if he is taking any prescription medications (which they dont do often, but they have the ability to do), they will most likely pull his medical permanently for falsification. I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent.. He was the author of numerous books, including. I asked him why I had to jump through all these hoops if I could get a waiver. Duration of Medical Certificate Pilots who are age 40 and older will still renew a third class medical every 24 months. Great guy, but he needlessly put a lot of peoples lives in danger. then are able to re-apply. Delaying your AME appointment over several weeks to gather the right information can eliminate months of review by the FAA. It explains a lot of stuff that seems ridiculous, like have you ever been unconscious. Drowning deaths 2400 FAA sets up high-level alerts for missed airline inspections, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Email me at [emailprotected]. But then how would all the AMEs and some people in the FAA make a living??? Both asked for, and received, removal of their Special Issuance. Because the measures necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling. Eat right, excercise, dont smoke, and dont take drugs of any kind. Not much of a medical exam, if you ask me. If you have determined that you are not healthy enough to fly sport, then you have done exactly what the Sport program is intended to do; leave the decision to the pilot. He memorized the color chart. Having spent over 10k learning to fly I was advised at my medical I had LBBB. In the latest installment of The Great Debate, Richard Collins asks you to weigh in on whether pilots are truthful when they visit the AME. The FAA issues updates to the AME Guide on a monthly basis. At least my livelihood doesnt depend on it. I can now only fly Sport due to a medical condition that will cause me to fail the third class medical exam if I take it. All other patients was sick, so sick but pilots healthy, so healthy. I was STUPID enough to be honest. Syed, A related question would be do people fly without a medical illegally? Further, you fly with your family and maybe some of your employees if you use an aircraft for business transporation. have you ever once in your life had and on the other hand they are so vague. I have to say, this doc was thorough, checked everything, but, when he saw that attachment with all that exposure, he looked at me in a way like what is all this. After 30 years without a problem, one would think the risk of incapacitation is no greater than the general pilot population flying on a normal class III medical. Like everything els not all AMEs are created equally. Ive no choice but be truthfull,but I am sure Ive flown with other pilots who are afraid of admitting or just dont admit that they are not fit to fly themselves or their passengers safely.Does that ache youve been noticing or even worse ignoring mean something? I agreemost pilots at least fail to mention things. My AME is my regular Doctor. Global misunderstands that Procedure codes, diagnosis codes and pharmacy codes were denied protections under to ACA of 2010. The Application for Airman Medical Certification (otherwise known as MedXPress or 8500-8), needs to be filled out prior to seeing an aviation medical examiner. This is very true if you were to tell them everything that has happened to you in the past medical histories etc. I think that FAA should be concerned about this difficulty in people. Im 64 and working on my PP license. And two complete submittals of blood tests. After you complete your MedXPress application, you will need to schedule an FAA flight physical with an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). Additionally, I believe this would be a tremendous economic boon for the industry as a whole. Some other government agency gets told another. If successful with testing, you can then make further arguments that you do not have an aeromedically significant medical condition. There are also considerations for appeal to the National Transportation Safety Board, but this option will be also be dependent on discontinuation of the disqualifying medication and your ability to develop an argument that the underlying diagnosis was not accurate. I have been flying for 39 years and professionally since I was 18. Coud be they are asking to much, to elimate the third class medical?. Regardless of whether they lie or not, the system seems to be working there seem to be very few (if any) crashes or incidents related to pilot incapacitation that they FAA/NTSB can point to a problem that should have come in a medical. If you fear denial, speak to someone that knows what they are talking about, not a blog. Aside from that, I think that few pilots lie but, as Huck Finn said of Mark Twain, there was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth., See my comment about the unconsciousness question. Im not dumb enough to eat a big meal then jump right into a plane for the flight back unless it is one with a toilet and someone else is flying! Have tried the polite calling routine, found they will lie to you, one time the lady told me my SI was approved & mailed 2 days prior, when I finally got it 3 weeks later the post mark date proved they had lied. So, I can only assume that the FAA will see it so there is no question about having to report it myself. If you are stupid and want to wait months for a medical waiver. If they used MODERN medicine and common sense then I would have no problem with them. Specifically, those questions are question 17 (the question about current use of medications), question 18m (the question about mental disorders of any sort), and question 19 (the question about visits to healthcare professionals in the past 3 years). The med examination wasnt any different from the third class but the vision requirements are different. For those who fly for a living, YOU are the natural enemy doctor. FAA Disqualifying Conditions: Bipolar Disorder. The Third Class is an absolute joke. When a government becomes oppressive, intransigent, and unreasonable, allowing no recourse beyond its edicts, eventually people react. The standards are too strict and the FAA bases thier decisions (especially on medication) on generalizaitons instead of listening to the pilots and doctors. I do recommend that you do ask your AME any questions regarding your medications and or your medical history and assist in the gathering of medical records relating to what condition you may have and also the same for your arrest/and or correctional history to explain why on the medical form in the explanations page. Are you serious? The 8500-8 of necessity must be brief and it is very difficult to get authorization to change it. My 10k already spent, to me was wasted. They always do it under the banner of safety. But the feds harass pilots, not drivers, because they can get away with it with pilots but not with drivers. Headwind vs. Tailwind Whats the Difference? Logic dictates that if the medical requirement did not exist, the number of incapacitations would be somewhat higher. This is especially true of hearing. Requesting Medical Records. I was told at a young age I could not fly with one eye, but latter in life I found out I could with a medical waver. It may be that some of you folks are not involved as subcontractors to the Airframe manufacturers. 'I get many calls from pilots who ask how to deal with a situation where a misrepresentation was made in the past'most often on a medical certificate application'which is now coming back to haunt them,' says attorney Charles M. Finkel. Probably, we certainly arent as full of ourselves as I was when I was a young man. I Fly America I dont think its ever been a question about whether pilots lie. With a small investment of time and energy, in the beginning, it is possible to keep flying with most medical conditions as long as they are well controlled. I sympathize with you. should not fly. I can get it back, but I have to go through a fairly extensive bureaucratic morass to recover it, then jump through extra hoops over the years to keep it. Regardless of whether or not you would get caught, a better question to ask is why would you try to get away with it? As the FAA put it, a pilot must ground themselves if they are unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate.. Youd think somebody in the FAA would be ashamed of being this dumb and show a little initiative and courage to fix such obvious issues instead of burying their tiny little heads in the sand. Note, denial is different from deferral. I think its a very poor decision to falsify your medical. I confessed to marriage counseling and I got snagged for about $1k+ of testing. I would be totally fine with an evaluation, but it sounds like a lengthy- expensive- and rather rigorous test that offers no gurentee to a medical. Did you tell the FAA you snore? If I tell the AME about this will I not get my cert that day? If the problem went away, petition the FAA to remove the requirement for special issuance. If I wanted to continue learning to fly I had to pay to visit a nomiated CAA doctor. People who are actually depressed long term are not really at risk of doing things like this if they were, they wouldnt be here to start with. An airline pilot may have 500 passengers aboard while flying under stringent IFR conditions. What next, psych eval, cholesterol screen for atherosclerosis, denying smokers because risk of copd exacerbation in unexpected decompression, genetic screening to predict addictive personality or anger tendency? 3. He never lied. The smart ones do. Experts offer these tips: When he isn't flying, Paul Engstrom writes and edits from Sebastopol, Calif. It is important to point out, according to the AOPA, there have been no accidents related to pilots self-certifying and flying under the Sport program, and many of those pilots Im sure, were under the same misconception as me! Why would I want to go through the unbelievable hassle of explaining myself to a bunch of know-nothing bureaucrats and internal medicine doctors who dont know their ass from their elbow about depression beyond some laughably simplistic characterization of the disorder in a diagnostics manual? waiting for them. Assuming you appropriately responded to one of these three questions, your application was likely deferred and the FAA sent you a letter, requesting medical records. The issue is what we feel is important, because the government wants a complete history and providing it isnt possible and pilots are going to make their own judgements about whats truly important to fully disclose. The word EVER in the forms will toss you through a buttload of psychological tests you will be sorry you were ever honest. What objective proof can they present that Im actually depressed or for that matter no longer depressed that would otherwise qualify me for a medical? I got my license back about 10 years ago. Most pilots I know plan to fly for longer than it takes one or two medical certificates to expire. If the medical dates are incorrect, please contact CAMI at (405) 954-4821. Dont take it personally, those are just the facts on the ground. I hadnt had any issues or symptoms for over 10 yrs., doctors Id seen always pronounced me fit & healthy. Nonetheless, the posts are very short for novices. 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